[Introduction]
Presenter:
Next up today sees the release of Cutouts, the third album by The Smile — Thom Yorke, Jonny Greenwood and Tom Skinner — who, since forming in 2020, have been working at a relentless pace. Three albums in two years: their last record, Wall of Eyes, only came out in January this year. But this is not the sign of a band holding things out without due care and attention. Every record of theirs is an evolution, and their output feels like an intentional break from the usual established industry pattern of product scheduling — more an illustration of a group of musicians simply freeing themselves up and creating when, where and how the moment takes them.
This new record is another brilliant piece of work, feeling maybe more free-form and less dense than its predecessor. It is fluid, hard to pin down and hard to put down. The band, however, have remained pretty much silent. There have been no interviews; they have been very much happy to let the music speak for itself, I guess is the cliché. But the reality is: they just play music rather than talk about music. However, drummer Tom Skinner very kindly agreed to speak to us here at New Album Fix on 6 Music.

[Interview]
Interviewer:
It seems that the work rate of the band is quite relentless. It feels like you’re doing more records than most people do in an entire career. Tell me a bit about that. Is it just constant momentum, or do you think about it in terms of albums? How does it work for you guys?

Tom Skinner:
I don’t think we’ve thought about it in terms of albums quite in that kind of way, Ian. It’s just been a quite natural, steady workflow from the beginning, really. In terms of these two records, they were largely recorded at the same time — at least the start, the start of the recording process. Then, in terms of finishing this third LP, we reconvened after the initial sessions to finish everything. So yeah, it’s been really productive. It’s been really fun and very exploratory. From the beginning, we’ve always just followed our instincts and our intuition, and tried to follow where the music is telling us to go. It’s been a really enjoyable, fruitful time of creativity for all of us.

Interviewer:
That’s very much what comes across when listening to each record. Everyone talks about the evolution of a band, but because these records are so close together you can really feel you pursuing different avenues. It feels like it’s expanding out with every record. It’s fascinating to see.

Tom Skinner:
Yeah, I think also as we’ve been performing live, we’ve been writing as we go and developing new songs on the road, practising them in soundchecks. Then, once we feel like we’re ready to perform something, we’ll put it into the set and surprise everyone by playing a new song. So yeah, it’s been fun in that way as well. The general thing with both the recording and performing has been just keeping it moving and thinking on our feet.

Interviewer:
Obviously, with the musical pedigree of Tom and Jonny, it would be quite easy for everything to become very precious — “this is a new project, this is a new record from these hugely talented musicians”. But by keeping it nimble, you push all that expectation to one side and it becomes more instinctive. I guess that’s something you like about the project, otherwise you wouldn’t be doing it?

Tom Skinner:
Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s true.

Interviewer:
Paint a picture of the geography of the sessions. If I came to visit you, where would the studio be? Is it cups of tea and biscuits and lots of chatting, then five minutes of work? Or is it just work, work, work?

Tom Skinner:
It’s pretty full-on work. When we’re there to work, we just get on with it, really. There’s quite a lot of coffee. Both these last two records have been largely recorded at Jonny’s studio, which is in his garden, essentially. He has a lovely house just outside Oxford, in some woods, and the studio is separate from the house. It’s a very calm environment. It’s a great space. We have everything set up that we need. If we want to go in whichever direction musically, we’re ready to go. We have all the guitars, basses, drums, keyboards, synthesizers — everything ready to roll.

Tom Skinner:
Some sessions were also at Abbey Road. Bits of both albums were recorded there, which was really fun. I’d never really made a record at Abbey Road, strangely. I don’t think people do that much these days — some people do — but I think they were really happy to have us there. It was like: “Oh, you want to come and record here for two weeks? Okay, great.” That was really fun.
We also did some scratch recording while we were on the road. Sam Petts-Davies, who produced the record, came on the road with us, and if we had bits to finish — vocals, finishing touches — we’d do them in dressing rooms or hotel rooms. We’d listen to mixes and make decisions as we went. So it has been an interesting journey through different environments, but mainly it was focused at Jonny’s studio in Oxford.

Interviewer:
In terms of how working with Jonny and Thom has changed the way that you approach your playing — you’ve obviously worked with various different people before, and everyone you play with, even if you have a very distinct style, changes you because you’re responding to what everyone is doing in the room. How has this changed you? How are you a changed man because of these records, especially this current one?

Tom Skinner:
That’s a good question. I don’t know. Their music with Radiohead has been a large influence for me over the years, so I feel like even before I knew them, I sort of felt like I knew them to some degree. In some strange way, I felt like we might convene together at some point — which we did — and it just felt like a sort of natural progression. Their music has informed my playing to some degree anyway and has been an influence, so I guess it’s really just been an extension of that.
As we’ve evolved as a group, we’re all learning from each other every time we perform. It’s always a bit different. Different things happen which can pique our interest in various ways. We’ve done a lot of shows now, and I feel like we really feel like a unit when we play together, which is a great feeling. It feels like we can go in any direction at any given time.
I’m coming from a largely improvisatory background — playing jazz and improvised music has been a large part of my journey up until now, and still is. I’d like to think I’ve brought some element of that to the group, and I feel like they’ve really embraced that side of my playing, or that side of the music that we make together. It feels like an ongoing musical conversation between the three of us that is constantly evolving and taking different twists and turns. Long may that continue. I look forward to whatever we do next.

Interviewer:
One of the things I like about it is that you get this clear idea of: “This is a Jonny thing.” “This is a Tom thing.” “This is a Radiohead thing.” But it’s still so distinct from everything else that you’ve all done. You can feel the threads of familiarity — Tom’s bass playing is always incredible because he’s such an unusual bass player — but it’s still surprising.

Tom Skinner:
Absolutely. I think because it’s Tom and Jonny, there are elements that will sound familiar. But I feel like the music we make as The Smile is quite distinctive, like you say. It’s quite different from everything we’ve all done separately. It’s a very interesting combination of people, personalities and approaches to music.

Interviewer:
Let’s dig into the record a bit. Let’s pick a couple of songs — they don’t have to be singles — anything you have a particular fondness for, or where you think: “That was a great day.” Where should we start?

Tom Skinner:
I think “Don’t Get Me Started” — the creation of that and the evolution of that song — was a real moment for us in the studio.

Interviewer:
Why was that? Tell me about that.

Tom Skinner:
It evolved initially from one of Jonny’s guitar riffs with his delay pedal, as many songs do. It was something that had been knocking around for a while. We’d jam on it in soundchecks, and we’d been playing it in different forms for quite a while. Then we took this guitar riff and put it onto the Prophet-5, and suddenly it took on this new quality and a new life. It put it into a completely different zone from anything we’d heard before. It was like: “Wow, this has opened it up into a new kind of area.” That was a really exciting moment. Then when it flips to the B section, that was something Jonny almost just improvised in the moment, I think. It’s such a beautiful moment on the record, and when that happened it was definitely a moment.

Interviewer:
Why does the album open the way it does? Why does it start with “Foreign Spies”? It gives you so much atmosphere and immediately places you inside the record.

Tom Skinner:
That decision to open with that didn’t come lightly. It’s quite a bold move. But I think that decision came from wanting to distinguish it from the previous record — and from the previous records. It felt like such a departure. There’s nothing else like that song. It’s pretty unusual, to say the least, lyrically and sonically.
This record features a lot more synths and electronics compared to the last one. So I guess it was a statement of intent: “Here we are. This is something different that you haven’t heard from us before.” It felt like a very bold way to open. And again, like many of these decisions, it was something we just ran with because it felt exciting.

Interviewer:
In terms of your playing, is there a moment where you think: “That was gnarly to get right. That didn’t fall into place as easily as I wanted, but we got there in the end”?

Tom Skinner:
There are a couple of songs. I feel like my drums are maybe featured a bit more on this record than on some of the other stuff. “The Slip” is essentially like a drum solo in a way. There was a pattern that we had, but then I did about three passes and just went off, trying lots of different things. Then we cut the track around some of those moments. The drums are quite a big feature of that song.
There are also a couple of songs that had been songs we’d played live for a while but struggled to capture properly in the studio. “Eyes & Mouth” was one of those. It had been a live favourite, but it had been difficult to capture properly. With this performance, I feel like we nailed it. Again, it’s very much built around the live drum. Jonny and I cut the drums and guitar together, so it’s very much a live drum take. I’m really pleased with how it came out because it was difficult to get the right thing, and I think finally we managed to nail it.

Interviewer:
Thank you to Tom for doing that interview for us.
No live shows scheduled for The Smile, but I feel like The Smile story does not end with this album.