This is a transcript from an audio recording of the broadcast.
Editor's Note: Most of the interviewer's questions are absent, owing to the way the interview was edited for broadcast.
Thom: How would I describe myself, bearing in mind I'm being filmed? Uh... I'm awkward, over 40, been a musician over half my life but can't read music. I've got a ponytail (laughter) today, and uh, not quite sure how I got here. In a good way. Is that helpful?
[cut]
Thom: Oh, I wanted to be this! There was, at the age of-
Agnieszka: So the dream came true.
Thom: Yes, it did. "Dreams can come true"...
Thom: I wanted to be, you know, Brian May or I was obsessed with playing electric guitar. I never thought I'd be someone who messes around with drum machines, and so on. Lots of things change. Lots of ideas about what music is, what music could be, what the music business is, how you reach people, all this sort of thing. You know, none of this is- I didn't think beyond-
Thom: The most exciting thing I'd ever seen in my life was watching Brian May at the age of seven or eight or whatever, watching Freddie Mercury and that sort of, that idea of... I don't know, when you're that small, [it] just completely blew my mind, so the dreams I had I guess... I don't know. Once I'd seen that, that was it. There wasn't anything else.
Thom: No, because I think what happens, that sets you off in a sort of childish way, you know. But then, obviously as you become a 12-year-old boy and you hit puberty and all this other stuff, then it becomes much darker and much deeper and um... Like, all my mates who were my age and stuff, they got into band to get girls and stuff. But I was at a boys school so that was not a factor. I mean, I just did it because it meant more to me than anything else, even though it was quite difficult to get hold of instruments and persuade my dad to drive me around and do all that sort of thing. There wasn't anything else really for me. I mean, when I went to school, I found the music department at the school and I just stayed there. You know, I had to go to other lessons and then I went back to music school that's what I did.
Thom: It's right in the core of how I think about music at the moment really, the tension between the two. Atoms for Peace, the band itself, was formed out of me making a record on my own called "The Eraser". Just basically using my laptop when I was traveling, and then adding vocals at the end. Then I was suddenly curious to how that would be to play that live, to try and imitate the mechanical-ness of the beats, the strictness of the beats, but to do it with friends of mine who I knew could do it, who were technically good enough to imitate the feel and stuff. And then out of that came this curiosity about where that idea could go, cause when we did get together and we did make that work, it was really exciting because they're sort of trying to imitate different sorts of grooves, and the idea that I could come up with- Because I'm a frustrated drummer, you know. I can't really play, so I use my drum machine or the laptop or whatever to come up with beats that I can hear, that I can't play, and then sort of just taking that and the sort of the mix between the two, so you hear how they try and imitate that and what they throw back at you and that to me is a really fascinating area.
Thom: I'm very into dance music, I think in a way - the more interesting side of it, not the really heavy druggy side of it - to me it sort of goes back to lots of things, I mean it to me, it goes back to like, uh... Can, and sort of... well, Can especially. Cause the drummer was so incredible and so almost mechanical in the way he played, and the way that you could just, to me, you zone out. You know, very much like with dance music, the idea is you go into sort of alpha waves really. The repetition is not repetition in the sense of just cutting and pasting and looping something. There's more to it than that. If you repeat it, and you're human, then there's something else going on. The repetition is not... to me, it can be the opposite of boring if the feel is moving and changing, if things happen over time, like a hypnotism thing. That to me is really fascinating. I think probably because when I started with Radiohead we worked in a very, very different way, the opposite way to that. You know like, it was very much organic and sort of like, I'm going to say this line, and then I'm going to go to... very much like a narration, very much like old fashioned songwriting, in a good way. That was the idea, and this... I don't know. After a while I just, because I got back into dance music, I've always found a frustration with the dance music in the sense that the machines are not that sexy a lot of the time. It can be sometimes and then they can be very unsexy other times and humans... when they play like machines, to me are really sexy.
Thom: Not really, no, no! It was in the sense that... when we did "OK Computer", even then we were obsessed with Can. There was these photos in one Can album, of their studio that they had, and it was all really super homemade and they were in control of their recording, and that's what we wanted. And when we met Nigel on "The Bends", we were like, "Next record, we want to do it. And whatever equipment you think you need, here's the money for it. Go and get it." And so it was like the kids had taken over the factory, you know. But we all were involved. I mean, he initially like, it was an old fashioned way of doing it. He was the record producer. He was behind the mixing desk and we were all over there. That broke down pretty quick when I watched him using the computer to edit the music [and thought] "I'm going to learn that." And at the same time, Jonny and Colin especially got heavily involved in analog synthesizers and samplers. They're both really amazing at that.
Thom: No, it wasn't just Nigel, it was all of us really, in different ways.
Thom: Yeah, I mean, because he's had a lot of experience in the studio, so he was doing quite a lot of it in the 90s anyway when he wasn't working with us. He was brought up in a studio where bands were using all this equipment a lot and we weren't. When we came in, we were like, really, we've only got guitars. I can play a bit of piano, that's it, you know. But we threw that out pretty quick. And yes, he was there because he knew when we didn't understand the equipment, he would come in and go, "It goes like this," but he wouldn't sort of, he'd leave us to work it out ourselves a lot.
Thom: Well... I mean, I guess that was like "Kid A" when that really happened. Although a lot of people, even when we brought out "OK Computer", they were a bit sort of, "Oh no". But with "Kid A", it felt completely, what we were doing, it felt completely obvious that that was the next thing to do, you know.
Thom: I mean, it was partly, it was me to begin with because I was getting back into dance/electronic stuff, Aphex Twin and Autechre, and Boards of Canada, and things like that. Because I kind of just felt really frustrated with guitar and I think... when I started to explain it to everybody, they kind of understood. But it was a bit of shock for them to begin with. But to me, it was sort of, well, are we really going to spend the rest of our life just standing in a room strumming guitars and that's going to be it? Is that really what we're going to do? And I think once they'd figured out that it would be way more fun to just say "There aren't any rules, you know, we make records, that's what we do." I think it was fine and I think obviously, I guess that was kind of the same for everybody else a little bit. But to me, it was sort of, it was kind of a life or death thing. I couldn't just carry on, I can't repeat myself. I find that very difficult because it just feels hollow. Because part of making music is listening to other music, to me. It always has been. You know, nothing comes out of thin air. Nothing is original in big words. Just isn't.
Thom: When we listened to "OK Computer", we were obsessed with Morricone. Completely obsessed, you know. All we wanted to do was make a record that sounded like any of Morricone. In our heads, that's what we were doing, you know. But we were on tour with R.E.M. and you can hear the R.E.M. in it as well, you know. It's the same every record. Every record has whatever you're into in it, It's like Lennon says, it's not what you imitate, it's how you imitate. And I'm very, very, very lazy about how I learn shit. I mean, I almost never read a manual unless I absolutely have to. Like, I literally can't get the sound out of the fucking thing and then I'll read the manual. Because to me, actually, one of the things I find interesting is sort of when you find a guitar that you like. I don't buy that many guitars, but the few I have bought, I pick it up and something new comes out of it as I pick it up and that's why I'll buy it. And it's the same thing with a drum machine or a box or whatever, a synthesizer. First time I'll turn it on and once I've got past the presets, the first thing I find, if that's inspiring, I'll get it. Because as soon as you're familiar with a machine, it's useless.
Thom: It's the sort of like not quite sure what you're doing. It's like being a kid, you know, it's toys. I mean, I spent my life playing with toys and when I had my first laptop that I was actually able to make music on without [it] crashing all the time and was fast enough, I was like, it was the ultimate toy, you know, but after a while, it got boring, and it... Going back to your question, it's like the best thing to do when you're travelling, make music. Literally make new music like that as you're sitting in a car going to an airport or whatever. It's fantastic. Because there's something about the travelling element of it, there's something about the moving thing and all this shit going on around you and you're just doing that.
Thom: My problem is I'm very good at starting things and absolutely useless at seeing anything through. This is what I mean about the sort of playing element to me. So I'll do thousands and thousands of sketches, well not thousands but almost hundreds in a year. They'll only go somewhere if I show them to other people, you know, or if I live with them long enough that I understand where they should go next. So it's one of the two. So I listen to them a lot, even if it's just shit, you know, there might be a 10 second section that's got something. Which is actually how we ended up doing "The Eraser". I gave Nigel a lot of shit and he's like "That bit's good." And I'd say "What about this other 9 minutes?" And he'd give me this level look. "Okay, alright, we'll work on this 10 seconds then." So it's a way of not wasting my time.
Thom: Yeah, there's a battle between us always and on "Amok", it was just like that. It's like I will endlessly come up with ideas and then I'll not know where to stop. I'll just keep going and I'll keep going and I'll keep going and he'll stop me. But sometimes he'll stop me before I'm ready to be stopped. You know what I mean? Like fuck off! Leave me alone. Just leave the room for an hour, okay? It's always been like that. Going back to the laptop thing, to me like laptops, it's kind of no different to do endless sketches on a laptop, to me, than doing endless sketches on guitar or in my notebook. You know, it's sort of all the same thing. You're just looking for a seed of something. And it's always been the case with, I think with Radiohead a lot, with the idea of a seed of something because we spend so much time, it's so different the way that Atoms for Peace works and Radiohead works. Because Radiohead, we collectively are going and looking for whatever it is, the seed of something that starts it all. And actually, when you find these things, it's relatively quick. Things happen quickly. But all this time when that's not happening, it really does your head in. But it's just part of what we do and we got good at dealing with that over the years, you know. But we spend weeks waiting for that to happen. You know, it's weird.
Thom: Yes, I was very much sort of, that's what it was. I mean, that's what I was into, you know, really into. But actually, weirdly previous to that, when I was at college, I was really into dancing. I mean, when I met my partner, the reason I thought she was so hot was because she was an amazing dancer, you know. And to me, I've always been into it. And I think that just something, I just sort of stopped doing it. I stopped listening to that sort of music and got into something else, you know. But I honestly say, I never thought I'd actually end up dancing on stage. I mean, that was like...
Agnieszka: It's great!
Thom: It kind of started when we started having songs that I wasn't playing guitar. So I'm not going to just stand there. And then when we had sort of things like "Idioteque", and you know, "Dollars and Cents" and stuff like that, to me it was like, well, fuck it. What else am I going to do? And then I just, people are sort of saying, "You're dancing? We think it might be good that you're dancing?" Really? Okay. But you know, it's been a sort of... I didn't wake up one morning and think, "Oh, I know!"
Thom: (on the music video for "Ingenue") Well, that one's much more choreographed. That one...
Agnieszka: This is another level of dancing.
Thom: Yeah, which I really wasn't ready for! (laughter) Because Wayne, the choreographer, was like... because there was two of us, I had to dance much more in the sort of slightly avant-garde thing, which was hard to do, to say the least. But you know, it's another level. I'll do some more maybe for a laugh. I'll end up doing like Beyonce ones. It'll be great. You wait. It'll be fine.
Thom: (on the album artwork) Stanley was just having a lot of fun when he was doing this. Because we deliberately wanted to repeat the artwork from "Eraser". Because we weren't actually going to call it Thom Yorke. We were going to call it Atoms for Peace, but we wanted the link to be there. So that was the first thing. Also, Stanley really enjoyed doing that. When I first met Stanley at college, this is what he did. But we'd never done that with the Radiohead thing, because it never felt appropriate. And I think, you know, lots of people look to the artwork and they're going, "Ooh, end of the world type thing." In fact, I just got a video treatment through the same thing, you know. And to me it's sort of, no, actually it's sort of taking the piss. It's sort of being really silly to me. Why's an elephant there, for Christ's sake? You know, we got like... (looks over CD artwork) Disneyland at the end. I mean, obviously that could do with being...
Agnieszka: This is Disneyland? Never been to...
Thom: Yeah, you've not missed anything. We were a little bit worried about it though. We'd done it and we went, "Oh, shit." But hey, too late.
Thom: (was it as easy as calling these people and saying "let's make a band together"?) Yep! It was that easy. I mean, there was the sort of four or five months when it was milling around in my head before I did that. But then I was just really curious. It wouldn't go away. The idea wouldn't go away. So I thought, "Well, fuck it." And it was really the first time I'd ever sort of tried to sort of get... It was an experiment. You know, when we got together, it was like, I didn't think of it like it's a band or... I mean, I still don't think of it as a band necessarily because we have other things to do, so... it's for fun. It's for kicks. But weirdly it has this thing to it that's quite unusual. But really, honestly, it just started as fun.
Thom: Totally weird. Yeah. I mean, we're getting together next week, the end of next week, and we haven't seen each other properly for ages. I've dropped in on a couple of Chili Peppers shows, seen Mauro and Flea there, and I've seen Joey, but he's just had a baby, and it's one of those odd things where suddenly you're thrown together and you're doing this thing. But really, to me, it's barely beyond the experiment stage. You know, because we had this few weeks' worth of rehearsals in LA, and then we did a couple of shows and then break, and then like a week of shows and then didn't see each other for ages. And then I think we're still getting to know each other. We'll probably be tearing each other to bits in a couple of months, like a normal band.
Thom: I think it's kind of a little bit like if you're an actor. I reckon, I don't know, I've not done it. But if you're going to be in a band with people, you can't have any shit hanging around. You've got to get on and you've got to really feel each other, otherwise it's a waste of time, especially with this sort of music, because it's all about how tight it is together. It's all about the grooves, and I don't reckon you can groove with people if you don't like them. You know?
Thom: The whole point of Atoms for Peace to me is it's informed by this electronic aesthetic.
Thom: It's kind of not where it's at really. I mean, it could change a little bit. But I'm not very good at the whole idea of jamming, to me. If you're jamming, then you're doing what comes naturally, which is good in itself, but it's not new. And ultimately I play to try and find something new that I haven't heard before. Do you know what I mean?
Agnieszka: I'm trying.
Thom: I don't understand what I'm talking about either. It depends what you define by jamming. You could say that this whole "Amok" record was pure jamming. It's just where it starts from, because it starts from like, OK, here's this idea, here's this drum loop, here's this... But it's not something you just come up with, because it's come out of a box, it's come out of a machine, or it's come from the laptop. So it's already a little twisted. So when people copy that and then jam on it, then you're getting something different, because it started from a different place. That's the idea.
Thom: All I do is improvise. The thing about it is where your improvisation starts from. If your improvisation starts from trying to copy something that you find difficult, and then getting into that, then you're starting from a different place than you would normally, and it's more interesting. But then improvisation and writing are the same thing.
Thom: Really weird for them, because the whole process was born out of like, kind of three days of total improvisation, guided improvisation.
Agnieszka: Not jamming.
Thom: Guided improvisation. "That's good! That's not good! Stop there! Hang on a minute!" Lots of that.
Agnieszka: That was your role.
Thom: That's me and Nigel's role. But I'm playing at the same time and singing and throwing things around, not physically, musically. They were like, "Hmm, I don't remember playing that." "You did." "I don't remember playing that." "No, you did." It's because of how we edited it and sampled it, and things were happening so fast that, I mean, initially even Nigel and I, when we listened back to it, loads of stuff we didn't recognise. Because we generated, I mean, we played for like three days straight, and there was a lot of good bits and pieces. It was very exciting because we expected to maybe like have just little elements that we could work with. That's about it.
Thom: Sometimes it was like really complete, just as it was, like... "Unless". Man, that is just... That's pretty much what happened, except for the synthesiser riff at the beginning. It's a weird process to me because the way we built it, their relationship to it, and I think maybe next time if we do something again, it will be a different process again. In fact, I'm certain it will be. But we just had so much stuff that we liked so quickly. We just went with that and thought, "Great. Don't analyse it. Just finish it."
Thom: They like it, which is a relief, because if they didn't, we'd be in some serious shit.
Thom: Yes, that's right. They have to imitate something that they don't remember playing in the first place. And I'm having to force myself not to play them loads of new ideas I've got, and Nigel's just saying, "Please don't do that. Please."