[recording starts]

Sound Opinions: "Did you guys just get into Chicago?

Thom: "M-hmm.

Jonny: "Two hours ago,

Sound Opinions: "You played Bonnaroo last night, right?

Jonny: "That's right.

Sound Opinions: "How did it go?

Jonny: "It was great, it was like doing a European festival. In a good way.

Sound Opinions: "Oh really!

Jonny: "It was much more mellow than any other American show I've seen.

Sound Opinions: "Really?

Jonny: "Yea

Thom: "They should spread it around, they should spread it all over the place, that's what I think.

Sound Opinions: "That's cool! That was kind of, um.... Everyone sort of commented on the fact that you guys were doing that festival, 'cause it had sort of been sort of a, rooted in uh, a lot of so-called Jam bands before. You know,

Jonny: "right,

Sound Opinions: "The sort of... Phish-Dave Matthews crowd..

Thom: "Er

Sound Opinions: "The Flaming Lips have done it a couple times, but you guys kind of... upped the ante a little bit, by playing the festival. It's like they changed course when they booked you guys, did you guys think it was going to be a good fit for you - in terms of the kind of audience that was gonna come? Or, did you think like, all those hippy jam band kids were gonna enjoy Radiohead, or, was that a good idea, to be a little subversive with the whole idea?

Jonny: "I've got to say, that there's no culture at all, of Jam bands, in England. It means nothing, I kind of know what it means,

Sound Opinions: "But didn't there used to be like the grungey, like the Ozric Tentacles and that kind of hippy,

Thom: "Ah yeah but they never, they're not... I mean last time the Tentacles were playing they were doing like, you know, Acid Casualties in a big pub down the road from me,

Sound Opinions: "ha! So it's not the same... Well in America, the whole Jam culture is, ell, basically, you know, hundreds of thousands of people who were sorry The Dead, you know, that [Jerry] Garcia died. and don't really want to admit that the party's over. So you know, if the band is halfway decent, which is rare, it can be great, 'cause it's this giant, you know, a hundred thousand people, stoned out of their gourd,

Jonny: "laughs

Sound Opinions: "and if not, well, it's still kind of fun, because they're all a hundred thousand people stoned out of their gourd, the music is irrelevant.

Thom: "exactly...

Sound Opinions: "yeah

Thom: "That's the whole point, isn't it?

Sound Opinions: "laughs!

Thom: "I watched Damien Marley, it was absolutely fantastic,

Sound Opinions: "Really,

Thom: "I mean, from our point of view, we did Coachella, and that was fine, except that we had a few beefs with the way that they were running it, it was a bit too much of the commercial end of the spectrum,

Sound Opinions: "Was it New Order that was there when you guys played, or,

Thom: "I thought it was The Cure...was it the Cure?

Sound Opinions: "Oh that's right...

Thom: "I have no idea. Um. And, just before we went on, John Frusciante said, 'cause he was there, he said, "You haven't got any slow songs, quiet songs in the set, have you?" "Yeah." "Because you know, they have two or three stages running at once, and there's a certain level you go below and you can't hear yourself, at all." So, when Bonnaroo came to us, the first thing was, would you mind, if you are serious about headlining us, would you mind if we could just have a silent slot? And they said, yea, so, that was one of the big things for me, But also, just having a series of friends of ours, a friend of ours, Andy, he explained how it ran and everything, to be, From our point of view, we have many beefs with the way that the live music set-up is in this country, as do a lot of people.

Sound Opinions: "As do the two critics in Chicago.

Thom: "And that, you know, we talked to Phish in the past about trying to set up, you know, similar things. We got stuck into that whole thing of Field Day, up in New York, and got burnt by that, because it didn't happen. Because a lot of people didn't want it to happen. Had to settle that at court. And you know, as far as we're concerned, we do come from a culture of ... first of all, it's a certain thing and that's what we've grown up with. One of the most positive things about British music culture is big festivals. And overseas they had the Wood stock thing, and how funny that all went. Bonnaroo seems to me, to be the people who understand what a festival is supposed to be.

Sound Opinions: "Yeah.

Thom: "Um, I think... We just ended up. Obviously you're suspicious because people can tell you these things, and we don't really understand, we're not from here, we don't know what the jam bands are, lalala. When we came off stage, I was sort of thinking, "Well that was wicked" "That was exactly what we

Sound Opinions: "So it was a good vibe.

Thom: "hoped... it would be"

Sound Opinions: "Well you got screwed in Chicago too, I mean you guys wanted to play Millenium park, Did you follow it? Both Greg and I wrote about it...

Thom: "Which one is this, is this the recent malarkey?

Sound Opinions: "This is this time.

Thom: "Well actually, no, to be fair, I've...sat down with our agent and our management, Gone through this with a fine-tooth whats'name, because, we... The intention when we came to Chicago was to two theatre shows cos we were doing lots and lots of new songs, The Bonnaroo thing came up and that was a separate deal, We'd just come on and do our thing, and we're not responsible for the organization, so great, yeah, we were up for that. We were never really up for doing a big show this time around.

Sound Opinions: "You were going to do Millenium Park, which what the promoters here, which is the great new...

Thom: "Yeah, I've heard all about it, it sounds amazing,

Sound Opinions: "There was a rehearsal of the orchestra apparently... the promoters wanted to put you in there,

Thom: "No, that was to do with the woman who now runs the orchestra.

Sound Opinions: "Ah.

Thom: "She was quite... proud of the fact that she had decided we weren't going to do it, But, we never said we wanted to do it.

Sound Opinions: "Ok. Well...it's gonna be fun in the Auditorium Theatre anyway, it's a beautiful building. 'Cause um, you guys played one of the best shows ever in Chicago.

Thom: "really?

Sound Opinions: "That show in Grant Park in 2001. It was almost a historic kind of event for Chicago 'cause rock concerts and the city parks didn't mix. For decades before that.

Thom: "Hmm!

Sound Opinions: " It was like they were scared of large gatherings of young people in the name of rock... in their precious park, and you guys pulled that show off! A huge success!

Thom: "I mean, if Chicago chose to have the G8 there, they would have trouble, but...

Jonny: "Any concerts, since then?

Sound Opinions: "This year Lollapalooza is gonna play there and they're doing it three days. That sort of helped break down a door. So, we appreciate that!

Sound Opinions: "Radiohead played Madison Square Garden a couple of nights ago, the second show in New York, and there's a scuffle in the crowd. Six big guys surrounding some woman, one of them president bush's daughters. What was your reaction? You wrote about this on the web,

Thom: "It is as I wrote on the blog, I don't know how these things work. I'd love to know if she actually had a ticket,

Sound Opinions: "Yeah, her, but what about the six secret service agents?

Thom: "It's a good job no one told me beforehand!!

Sound Opinions: "I liked your list of potential reactions.... You might have felt,
A: honoured.
B: Amused.
C: Bemused.
D: Asked if she had a valid ticket.
E: Objected belatedly on moral grounds.
F: Ask again if she had a ticket
G: Don't blame the daughter for the father
H: Shut up and smile.

Thom: "Shut up and smile... That's my normal response Oh! I remember talking to Phil about it afterwards, it was like, What was that fraccas going on? It was some guy being pushed around by secret service. I've since heard other stories.

Sound Opinions: "Well, you've been making some kind of news, by kind of, thumbing your nose. Didn't [Tony] Blair ask you to lunch and you said "What's the point?"

Thom: "Well yeah, but that was in the context of trying to, I was there to help the cause of the Friends of the Earth and their global warming campaign, and he started muttering about... He was making a series of statements which made it were making it blatantly obvious that there was no point in meeting with him because he was going to go down the nuclear route and he thought that economic growth was the number one priority, and blah blah, blah blah. So all the preparatory work we had done, or Friends of the Earth had done, for meeting him, was completely invalid. And at the same time, they wanted to bring me in, or his people wanted to bring me in, and talk me through the whole process. The subtext of which being, of course, 'If you leave the meeting, or are derogatory about the meeting, or say that nothing was gained, then you've forfeited the access for Friends of the Earth to the Prime Minister. Which normally, I read as blackmail.

Sound Opinions: "So you don't buy into Paul Hewson (Bono's) line of thinking,

Thom: "No, but you see Bono can charm the pants off of the devil. I just tend to call him the devil. Which gets me in more trouble.

Sound Opinions: "laughs! I mean, how much of a separation do you draw between your music and activism? You've been involved with friends of the earth and been outspoken on environmental issues, How much of that should bleed into your music? Can music affect political change? Paul Hewson (Bono) obviously believes they are one and the same. That it can affect political change.

Thom: "What do you think, Jonny?

Jonny: "I don't know,

Sound Opinions: "You give Jonny the tough one....

Thom: "I'm just asking Jonny because I'm consciously aware of it just being a pain in the arse, for you chaps, so I try and keep it out of the way.

Jonny: "I think that political subjects are only slightly naff when it sounds like preaching set to music. But when it's descriptive, which a lot of times, songs are, it can be great. It can be as poetic as any other subject.

Sound Opinions: "and I guess part via that, is, can that change anything? Can that have an effect on how the world is run?

Thom: "I kind of thought the point, of having politicians, is they do that. I mean, obviously, that can get lost. Ultimately, one should do what one is best at.

Sound Opinions: "Well I think that Radiohead are an inspiration in terms of being a successful band that is trying to do things with some ethics and concern for the fan. Which is becoming increasingly rare. I mean, jesus, Madonna's here, the same nights that you are. It is 380 Dollars a ticket.

Thom: "Oh, is she in town?

Sound Opinions: "Tonight and tomorrow night. For the third and fourth shows. 380 Dollars, guys,

Thom: "That's a live show, yeah?

Greg: "In the same way that Cirque de Soleil or Cats is a live show

Jim: "Or, a broadway spectacle.

Jonny: "Well, she's got loads of dancers, and we've only got Colin.

Thom: "Hang on! I dance. Except when my back hurts.

Jim: "For the level of band that you are the tickets seem to be at a reasonable level. Whenever you guys have toured. I notice a concerned effort on your part not to play with any corporate signage anywhere

Thom: "Sometimes that is basically impossible.

Jim: "Yeah.

Thom: "It winds me up.

Jim: "But these are kind of issues that you think about, I mean, do you have arguments with your booking agent

Thom: "We never have arguments with the agents about anything, because they totally understand what we are trying to do.

Jonny: "There's are always going to be cities where there are no venues like that. Or there's a great sounding venue that has that kind of...problem, If you've got to balance all these things out you kind of can't be too fascistic about it.

Thom: "ha!

Jim: "Well as you said, Thom, earlier, you basically can't tour the U.S. without doing some of this. You have to sort of...accept some of it.

Jonny: " Yeah. But at the end of the day you want a venue where the sound's good and people can see really well. And as you said, if you can avoid some of the more corporate and rubbish places, then that's great. Its tough. But like all these things, there are some great, enormous, great big venues, and some rubbish little clubs. In terms of sound, in terms of putting on a show, so... Every city is different.

Jim: "You know, we're talking about this Monolithic music industry, and in some ways it's an incredibly depressing conversation, but it remains to be said that you guys are working on a new album, and there are questions of if it will come out on a major label. Or another record label. Do you guys even need a music industry to put your music out there? Who is going to be the first real revolutionary band who shows the world there's no need anymore?

Greg: "I have to say that Pearl jam after their deal ended, ended up going with RCA.

Jonny: "It's tough, cause there's an element of retreat in all this, isn't there... I mean, you can.. You can worry so much about these things that you don't bother, you know, leaving Oxford. You don't go on tour, you don't put records out, and you don't.... You have to confront the business at some point, just to carry on. We want to carry on, so, So I'm sure there will be a deal eventually, or a label, or a record company doing something with a recording of ours.

Thom: "Well not necessarily.

Jonny: "We're not going to do it in our back shed! That 's only a tiny...

Thom: "Well, the the, the thing that, um, this is the thing that's an ongoing discussion with Brian that's in the other room and not here, is the fact that we, actually, we don't have to, if we don't want to.

Jonny: "Right,

Thom: "You know, the trouble with it is, if we sort of said, "Yeah, we're not gonna do that" and then we choose to, then that would be...rubbish, and, to be perfectly honest it's, I think, as far as we're concerned it's all about effort. And effort. And energy. And whether we really can be arsed to start a "revolution" at this particular moment, when actually the first priority is all the other stuff. And it should always remain that way. I mean, so, if it was a natural part of the evolution of what was going on, you know, and if the energy from the music required that we did that, then we would do it. I think it's great to pick fights, I love picking fights, However, there has to be a natural reason to do it, not just one that where you feel "This ought to happen."

Jim: "Well, you know what I'm saying. It's inevitable? That one day soon, Radiohead, or a band like you, will say, OK, come to radiohead.com and our album is here, for X dollars

Jonny: "Yeah. I don't know. I mean the energy with all that stuff is it makes me think we're gonna be sat in endless business meetings talking about how to do it off our own backs, rather than in studios recording music.

Thom: "Right. Yeah. At some point you have to give...

Jim: "We're giving away our radio show on the web and it costs us like twenty dollars a month, for service fees.

Greg: "Yeah, but we ain't getting paid either. (laughs)

Thom: ""Oh yah, forgot about that!"

Jonny: ""Oh yah. Gotta buy those Madonna tickets!"

Jim: "That is a drag.

Greg: "And now it seems like the internet in terms of your music getting out there and getting shared, that's a good thing? Because, you can find every Radiohead show, ever done.

Thom: "Any way to... yeah, I know. The You tube is insane. Any way to circumvent the mainstream radio system is obviously a good thing, I think it's a shame that the industry itself was so utterly dim-witted that they didn't sort of see this coming. Because, in a way, it was like, we could have all, it could have been a very amicable arrangement, for everybody. But they were far too busy reselling the entire back catalogue of Neil Young and Rolling Stones and all their stuff, again and again and again on CD Remasters and making an absolute frigging packet off the Beatles reissues, "Why did they need to care?" And you now, I wonder. And it's now sort of come back to haunt them 'cause they ain't got nothing else to flog again. But at the same time , I don't know, I guess it's um, to me, the physical thing in the room will always be better. I'm not really a particularly "I tunes" type person. I have tried it, it is obviously convenient if you're travelling, but i never ever use it at home, it drives me crazy. hate it.

Jim: "Are you listening to cds or vinyl?

Thom: " I think I'm kind of with the vinyl thing at the moment, although I don't have a flashy record player like he (Jonny) does!

Jim: "Flashy record player, Jonny?

Jonny: "A really silly one.

Jim: "One with the built-in like, anti-Earthquake thing?

Jonny: "... Not that bad, but getting there. One that's all

Thom: "You have to change the rubber band to 45,

Jim: "We ought to tell him about that. We went to visit this stereo store, right near your hotel, you know, and you see the 10,000 Dollar turn table, which is worth... more than both of our cars put together!

Greg: "yeah, right.

Jim: "wow!

Jonny: "We took Nigel our producer to uh, this great shop like that in Oxford, which was selling, if you do the currency conversion, like a 40,000 dollar transport. Just to make the CD spin around. Not even to turn it into sound or amplify it... just the physical... just the motor! And, and Nigel was getting incensed, and started arguing with the man, saying how we recorded all of our album on a tape machine that cost half that. Why would I want to spend this much money on the sound of... The guy was...you know.

Thom: "Well yeah, and you know, once it gets mastered, even the stuff you master it on isn't that high end. Nothing is. Nothing that you do the music with. Anyway, blablabla, that's obviously the other extreme. But I mean the thing, the physical thing of like uh, like that ep sent through the post and that, with art work and the full... I mean, I'm sorry, but, I don't think that's ever going to go away.

Jim: "M hmm.

Thom: "I'm a bit of a luddite like that. I think the whole, the digital thing, is wicked for like, spreading stuff around, and spreading knowledge, but I think that ultimately that people...I hope vinyl never dies, I dont't care if CD dies a death horribly tomorrow,

Jonny: "Yeah it's got to be said that there's nothing more disspiriting, I spend a lot of time in second-hand record shops, and occasionally look at the CDs too,

Thom: "He does spend lots of time in second-hand record shops,

Jim: "Now this bring us right back to...

Jonny: "And rifling through the second-hand CDs and it just felt like your hands were just...collecting plastic

Greg: "It's true...

Jim: "It's true, it's not the same as when you...but this brings us back to why you guys, you know, don't want to put out the record just as Radiohead, that you may, 'cause, 'cause, it is very easy to put out CDs, but it's a lot more troublesome to have vinyls, and you just want vinyl pressings of your records, right?

Greg: "You have to buy a turntable in order to own a Radiohead record from now on.

Thom: "Well, that's quite a good idea!

Greg: "Thom Yorke is now the head of the record industry, and I decree,

Thom: "Yeah, "and I've just bought all the record plants, and now I'm going to make a lot of money..."

Jim: "Now which Radiohead was it, album was it, I don't think it was Steve martin that did this, but remember when they had this stupid publicity idea, and they sent us the Radiohead album ...

Thom: "Glued into a tape recorder?

Jim: "What a waste of resources that was!

Thom: "I know!, well that was nothing to do with us, but actually at the time, it was quite a good idea. At the time.

(Clip of Thom Yorke - the eraser)

Jim: "Well, let's talk about some music! The Eraser is a really, really exciting record. So, Thom Yorke's first solo record, uh, is

Thom: "It's not really a solo record. Jonny wrote the very first chords of the first song.

Jim: "Well, there you go. And Nigel Godrich is all over it, right?

Thom: "He's all over it...

Jim: "SO it had a very long genesis and a very short and intense recording period, some of this stuff, these were ideas that were kicking around for some time, I gather. But then you went in, and in about six weeks, knocked this out, is that right?

Thom: "Yeah, initially it was just an excuse to, just to, get together, really, and hang out, and do something. And, I talked to the others about it, and asked permission, they seemed to be all fine with it at the time, and, so, it was just something...I need to get 'out me system, you know? And there was a few things that had been kicking around, and there was no way that they were ever going to end up being a band sort of thing, but equally, bizarrely, I mean, eh, the beginning of those six weeks, I didn't really feel there were any songs there anyway. We were just mucking about. And uh, it sort of evolved fairly rapidly the more we sort of refined it down. I mean, basically, my thing is, and it's always been with Radiohead as well, that that, the stuff I get off on is the stuff that makes me want to sing. I mean, today, for example, on the plane on the way over I was working on something, that Colin and Jonny basically set up and I just came and played like four notes on top of it. And it was amazing, this Beat-Synth thing. And you know, just cut and pasting on top, you know,

Jim: "Mhmm

Thom: "It's an extension of something we do within the band, and to say it's a solo thing isn't really true, because, you know, some of it was done at the Radiohead studio and a lot of it has the sort of sounds and things, you know, beat sourpusses that Jonny's built, on his drum machines, and stuff like that. I really, I get kind of twitchy about being a solo thing, and it's solo in a sense that I was mostly responsible for the music.

Jim: "Well it is credited to you, is it not?

Thom: "yeah

Jim: "SO it should actually read Thom Yorke and friends.

Thom: "yeah. yeah....

Jonny: "No, a lot of Thom's...You see Thom on the way to places, or even jut sat around waiting, he's got a laptop and headphones on, and it had been like that for years, so you know, eventually, some of that stuff had to come out.

Greg: "That's an interesting point Jonny, 'cause, um, Thom, your first instrument was Guitar?

Thom: "Uh, yeah.

Greg: "And Jonny, your first instrument,

Jonny: "Recorder

Greg: "Ok... The guitar came in there at some point?

Jonny: "Sure.

Thom: "No hang on, before guitar you did something else before guitar!

Jonny: "I pretended to play piano, I had to play violin, I got into this band playing keyboards... without knowing how to play, so I used to keep the volume way down, and pretend to play along. And Thom would always say, "I can't hear what you're doing, but it's the kind of thing where if you weren't playing, we wouldn't sound as good."

Thom: "And that still happens now!

Greg: "Well, Jonny, your record (Bodysong) I think only two out of the thirteen songs had a guitar on it, Thom, from what I can gather, your record the Eraser is entirely composed on computer, \

Thom: "Composed, yes. There are piano, acoustic instruments on it! Piano, drums, bass, guitar,

Jim: "Now I imagine that kid, holding that guitar, and that was like an exciting thing, and maybe one of the reasons you wanted to be in a rock band. But you guys have really become adept at writing on this other instrument, the computer! Can you compare it to when you first picked up that guitar and started writing songs?

Thom: "I think generally, hardware is better than software, isn't it... which is why things like the, um, Jonny's A.S. system

Jim: "What is that??

Jonny: "It's Analogue Systems, made by a guy called Bob Williams

Jim: " Is is, the interfaces with the computer where you can still pretend you're Brian Eno and,

Jonny: "No. It's like an old-fashioned patch based synthesizer.

Jim: "So you're plugging and turning and tweaking!

Thom: "An entire room!

Jim: "It's no fun if you don't have knobs to turn and stuff , right?

Thom: "Well this is, this is... Those things, the one thing during the Eraser was, there was nothing I could physically fiddle with which got really frustrating. The screen itself was not particularly scintillating. But you know, that was, by that point, a lot of the actual sort of, stuff, had been done anyway. You know, had been done on the fly, sitting around, as Jonny was saying, on apples and laptops and stuff.

Jim: "Isn't there a little bit of some of Jonny's music on this re...I think on the title song, right? Is that what you said?

Greg: "Yes, remember, it's Thom Yorke and friends?

Jim: "Exactly... So Jonny, I guess my question to you is how do you feel about what Thom did to your piece? Your music?

Jonny: "Well that was kind of a good example of it. It was a chord sequence, going nowhere; that he just cut up a dictaphone recording of, and rearranged, it turned into songs!

Jim: "Would you have recognized it, if he hadn't pointed it out to you?

Jonny: "That's a good question... At the end of the song I would, yeah! He left it for like the last thirty seconds! I knew it then...

(Clip of Thom Yorke, the clock)

Jim: "You know what's interesting, the separation of Church and State is probably a dead analogy here, but uh, there seems to be certain songs that, eh, clearly do not fit into the Radiohead... what the five of you would do, is very dissimilar to what one of you would do individually, and how do you determine that? When do you know that?

Thom: "Well, it was um, initially when I was, when I started up with Nigel, was a bit of a head mash up cos, I couldn't really... it just sort of made me really twitchy because, I was like "Well, uh... maybe I should just stop, and take this over and, you know, and show this to the others, "And then I thought well I've just decided to do this now. And what we've got in front of us, I'm just going to complete, and not think about that. Because part of the point of doing it was seeing how it feels to work on my own, or with Nigel, just, and take responsibility for that whole thing, and also just to be working in that realm completely, because basically it does get extremely boring for five musicians to sit around while one person edits eight bars and rescribes a couple of beats and things of that... You know, it's just dull. it's not, it's not a band experience. But we do do it in the band, but you know like doing a whole record like that would obviously not float everybody's boats.

Jim: "And it seems like there was a certain amount of dissatisfaction within the last couple of years where, some of the stuff sort of bubbles to the surface, I mean gathering that from reading some other interviews, from the last year or so, that there was some question last year maybe, that uh, was there another Radiohead album even going to be made? Where did you go from that point, to where you are now where you seem to be not only touring, but you seem to be actively working on an album again?

Jonny: "Well we had like a crazy six months within which the number of children we had seemed to double, I mean, last year was a real breeding year for Radiohead!

Jim: "I asked this before we turned the mic on, how many kids collectively, I said, eleven

Jonny: "Since the last

(Cross chatter)

Jim: "We were adding it up, trying to figure it out! I swore it was nine!

Jonny: "Ed told me that there's eleven in total,

Jim: "It might be fifteen by now?

Thom: "No, I think we'd know that.

Jonny: "Since the last tour, ed said that we had six children. So...

Thom: "Is that right?

Jonny: "Since the last tour. But you know once we, we all got over the initial six month hell, which all fathers know about

Thom: "Nine months!

Jonny: "And, and, and, we've kind of been rehearsing and on tour!

Jim: "So it was at a point where you were questioning whether Radiohead would continue?

Jonny: "There have been those points since "The Bends" really. Even since "Pablo Honey"

Thom: "Yah.

Jonny: "...of um, you know, fraught.

Jim: "'Cause it's work! It's as much work as a marriage or having a child... staying in a band... There doesn't seem to be any half way with you guys, it seems pretty intense,

Thom: "Well there, there, the mad part about it is where, is the truth is that it's not just a band, The truth is, it's the band and their families. And their kids. Everybody's affected. You know? If I choose to lose the plot tomorrow, and go and start a...farm, then everybody's affected. If we choose to carry on, then everybody's affected, And it's tough. A tough thing to do. You know, the easiest thing to do, would just be, behave badly, not you know, be, the rock and roll dad and not give a shit, and do whatever, and pretend you're still 15 or whatever.

Jim: "Yeah, somebody else is doing that.

Thom: "Yeah, exactly,...it's passe man.

Jim: "But, the flip side of that is , you know you see these institutions sort of build up, the Rolling Stones, or R.E.M. even, where the argument that comes back is, if you break up the band now, if we leave now, 'cause R.E.M. said they would never , ever, ever record or tour without Bill Berry, and then Bill Berry quits the band and they continue to tour and the response I got from Peter Buck and Michael Stipe is like "Well, you know, it's not just about us anymore. It's this organisation that we have..."

Greg: "Well, I mean, the Grateful Dead said that. Families to take care of. People on the payroll, health insurance.

Jim: "And that's very noble, if that's what you mean, but the same time is that the best thing for the music, is that the best thing for the art...

Thom: "Well that was the argument we had, many, well.. it wasn't that, to be fair, that wasn't the argument. The whole point in, in choosing to carry on was if the music was worth carrying on for, and everyone still had to go through the mill, 'cause the music was worth it, and if that wasn't it then it wasn't worth it.

Greg: "Where would you say that you're at in terms of that, uh, do you see an album coming out any time in the near future, or

Jim: "there are a bunch of new songs that are in the setlist when you're touring...

Thom: "Yeah. It feels like um, basically, it's starting again. And it feels like this is the, you know, one shouldn't assume that how we're playing these things, that we're playing on stage at the moment is in any way finished. It's just that's how we've got them for where we are now, and lalala. There's also lots of other stuff that's kicking around. And part of the enjoyment I always have when we get together and we work is that, you have things that you've been working on for months, and months and months, and then you have things that just happen straight away like that. So, it's not entirely representative of what will happen. I hope.

Jim: "Hmm. Is part of this idea of touring now, to see how the material is going to develop even further in live performance...

Jonny: "There will be arrangements played with, and new ideas, and some songs that might not make it, or we might start doing new ones in a couple of weeks...

Thom: "We've still got a couple that we need to try out.

Jonny: "We have, we're tending to have very long sound checks at the moment,

Jim: "Pink Floyd famously did that, before all of their best albums. Before Dark Side of the Moon, before Wish You Were Here, before Animals, they would take the album out and tour it for six months.

Jonny: "You know what was really good, is that you get to, the fact that you just play the song once, that day, and you're playing it in front of people, means you actually concentrate on the song as a four minute, five minute piece of music. And then you know what it sounds like. It's like standing back from something. And like seeing a brief...

Thom: "Like Videotape....

Jonny: "Rather, when you're recording you're hearing it all day, for two days, or a week. Or at night, even at night.

Thom: "Videotape was the one where like, this tune called Videotape that we've got, that was just driving me crazy, absolutely crazy, that we kind of had an idea but we just couldn't see it through, and there was like a couple rehearsals, where, I just couldn't deal with this...

(Live Videotape excerpt)

Thom: "And then we chose to play it like the first night in London, in front of everybody, and it didn't matter that it wasn't quite right, it didn't matter that you know, we had to change a few things, and blablabla, What mattered was that finally you got to play it in front of people, and you get to see it for what it is, rather, than this sort of series of equations that don't fit together.

Jim: "Well it seems like your songs go through three stages, like, I saw you guys introducing new material, and you go, well! That's kind of an interesting song, and then, the record comes out and you go "I remember when they played that live, and it didn't sound anything like the one that ended up on the record!".... and then you'll tour it again, and it changes again! It's like a different version when you're touring it, afterward.

Thom: "That's true...

Jim: "That was kind of cool i thought! Especially with the Kid A stuff, the post, the touring material, the way you handled that record live, was...a revelation. It made me go back to that record and hear it again. In a different way.

Jonny: "Yeah.

Jim: "Do you kind of know that's going to happen? Or is it, it's just a case of like well we can do this better?

Jonny: "Well it's interesting, except if we had taken, if we'd then gone and tried to re-record Kid A, supposedly using the ideas that people like live, that we were enjoying playing live, I'm pretty certain that most of them just wouldn't translate. Back onto record, back inside a studio, and that we did them right by having them quite electronic and quite...it's very weird, because the temptation is to think "Oh, it's great!" when you've got you know, when a band playing in a room, we should, let's go try it like that. But recording is such an artificial thing though.

Thom: "Well there's a sort of brutal simplicity about elements of Kid A that if you actually sort of sat and tried to physically try and repeat things that we chose to loop instead, it would just never work. One of the, one of the things you always have to be aware of is the fact that they are two different mediums, and me personally, I mean, I really enjoyed the live thing, but the absolute, the most fulfilled I get is when you know you've nailed it on tape! or digital... this time. You know, that sort of "Oh, ok, alright, finally." So then you have the luxury of endlessly changing it live. Because you've basically nailed it anyway.

Jim: "Jonny, I've seen interviews that you give, where you've uh, talked about, eh, maybe it would be a neat idea to release Singles or EPs uh, I think it was you who were saying it, but you guys are kind of antiquinistic in a way that you still think in terms of albums as a collection of songs that will take you on a journey, Do you still think that's the ideal way for us to listen to rock?

Jonny: "I think...i think, I change my mind every day, like my socks. Again, singles can be a bit of a cop out, really, it's like, you're saying this is just a single, rather than being proud of a collection of songs.

Thom: "Uh, I think I was responsible for that comment, and that I think that was, well we were both, I mean, I know we both sort of thought after KID A , that we'd made a mistake, in terms of, um, releasing, um, not releasing singles deliberately, not releasing singles and so on, it was good, an excuse, it meant we could do those funny video blips and stuff, but, actually you know If we'd ever, ever managed to get any of it on the radio, it would have just been so great, it would have been worth doing it. And so nowadays I sort of think the other way around where I can't see what's wrong with thinking in terms of singles just because of that constant ambition you have to hear it out of the insular context of a critically reviewed album. In a bar, or in a club, or in a place you don't expect, in a shop or whatever, that to me is the biggest kick I get out of you know, when we make records. And if , you know, I want to be Madonna basically,

Jim: "You said that! I saw an interview where you were saying you want to get some stuff on the dance floor. I wanna hear us on a dance floor.

Thom: "Yah. Mhmm! I'm gonna get my butt really tight before any of this...

Greg: "I would like to hear the twelve inch Radiohead remix of

Jim: "Just don't do the air conditioning thing, where you get the united center with four shows, sold out, So she wouldn't let them turn the air conditioning on. It has to be at least 80 degrees. 'Cause her precious vocal cords...

Thom: "No, you're absolutely right, air conditioning is murder for your voice. Absolute murder.

Jim: "really...

Thom: "Yep, it really is. I would say, I would concur with her on that.

Greg: "Have you ever done that, Thom, where you said no air conditioning

Jonny: "We did it at Madison Square Garden, three days ago!

Both: "Did you really??

Thom: "It was brilliant!

Thom: "Well, we got in there and it was like a bloody...a bloomin' freezer!

Jim: "Well then you put 20,000 people in there...

Jonny: "It was like a meat store...

Thom: "It was like 3,000 people maybe,

Jim: "But it was maybe 50 bucks for your show? For 380 you should get air conditioning.

(Chatter)

Jim: "All right, let's get back, we're talking to Thom Yorke and Jonny Greenwood, let's get back to The Eraser a little bit. Er.. A really powerful album, made with your friends, but bearing only your name, I really want to ask you about Harrowdown Hill... and I know out of respect for the family of Dr. Kelly, you've been trying not to talk much of the song,

Thom: "Dr. David Kelly was one of the chief experts of the chemical weapons. He went into Iraq the first time around and the second time around. And he was kind of a "whistleblower" in the same way that the CIA outed someone in America. It's a similar vibe to that, and the, uh, Dr. Kelly , for whatever reason, he died, and the circumstances surrounding it were extremely painful and horrible, There was an inquest in Britain where they wanted to basically get to the bottom of it, but it of course being an inquiry in Britain, everybody who was held responsible was not held responsible. And uh, everyone remained blameless. And, the song is my response to that. I've never been so... upset and angry with my country as I was over that. I was absolutely disgusted and ashamed by the way the Ministry of Defence dealt with this man. I think they should all rot...

(excerpt of Harrowdown Hill)

Thom: "That it was a mistake to call it Harrowdown Hill, I kind of assumed that people wouldn't know what Harrowdown Hill was. Unfortunately, the first interview I did for the record: "So...Harrowdown Hill." It was one of those things. You write something and then you go, "Oh, god, oh no" You've written it, you can't go back, it's there, and it's one of those things. I mean, I guess it's my job to do that. And to apologise if anyone is hurt by it. But also to try and stand by it because that was my honest response to a situation - which i found deeply dishonest.

Jim: "Dr. Kelly was a hero, to you?

Thom: "No. I wouldn't say that. I have no idea of the actual circumstances surrounding what did or did not go on. That's the trouble with it really, uh, he, ...I wouldn't say that he was in any way Anti War, He was questioning, you know, the way things were being put together. Very much like the CIA woman was, I mean, the ridiculous thing about it is that you've got people like, um, the ex ambassador to the U.N. from Britain, has written a book all about this: Exposing the level of spin and utter nonsense that was being taught. Which they're suppressing at the moment. You don't get anyone who's more well-respected, and willing to lose everything, and he's prepared to write a book like that, and yet, these other people who really had their lives destroyed, but were just high enough up the chain to be extremely inconvenient, they had to be got rid of, you know, one way or the other. I don't think that's good enough. I think that every single soldier that has gone to Iraq for a cause that he believes in should be told about this, should know about this, and should really, by rights, be questioning the governments' motives.

Jim: "Well that emotion, is it conjured when you hear the song?

Thom: "No.

Jim: "Does it get you angry..

Thom: "No, it's one of those really odd things where I wrote half the lyrics even before considering that it was, I know, it happened over a long period of time, obviously, um, and, you know the "I'm coming home to make it all right" thing and all that sort of stuff, to say it's about that isn't really true. It just ended up in it, by osmosis. These things were going on and they ended up in the tune, and it's like something i was extremely emotional about at the time, and couldn't help it being in the song. But, a lot of the initial lyrics, I didn't really realise anything about it until i looked at it further down the line. And then once I realised that I just sort of saw it through, really, 'cause it just made sense.

Jim: "M hmm.

Thom: "I mean I also listen to that tune and I think of, and I don't think anything about the Dr. Kelly thing at all sometimes. I can think about the Poll Tax Riots that happened in the UK and some of the demonstrations I used to go to. Where, you know, women, you know, where the police, sometimes their tactics are a little heavy handed, shall we say.To charge the crowds and break peoples' legs, whack them with truncheons, whatever it is, it's not very, um... The British government's response to popular opinion can manifest itself so many ugly ways.

Jim: "Well, it's interesting that you both have been able to make records apart from the band. And I know that in certain bands that is viewed as almost like a betrayal, he's a traitor, like... Thom, how was your reaction when Jonny made his record away from the band?

Thom: "I was just jealous he had the time to do it, really! My firstborn son had arrived and the entire world had gone topsy turvy, In fact, the maddest bit about it, we were actually living in the studio at the time, with my newborn son on and off, and Jonny was coming in and working down the other end, It was like..."Hi Jonny, how's it going? (You bastard!!!)"

Jim: "He was bringing in lots of quartets, having lots of fun!

Thom: "I know! I was like...wow. You're doing these crazy things with drums and I'm going "I'll go and change another nappy."

Greg: "So Jonny are you coming up with music all the time where you would like to have more outlets like that for the stuff, cos Radiohead seems to be moving at...I hate to tell it guys, but it's "snail's pace" ...We're getting on three, four years. Anyway, do you have lots of music that you're stockpiling, that you feel could surface on other projects like this?

Jonny: "No more than what was three to five years ago.

Thom: "He's got loads!

Greg: "I guess, are you guys writing all the time? Just constantly bits and pieces of music...laying around all the time and it's a matter of

Jonny: "Yeah. We often need each other to to, tell which of it is any good. 'Cause it's a weird thing, you write ten things and you think they're all good, or they're all bad, or they're all as good as each other, But then you sort of, you need to offer it up and have things sort of change and mutate. That's the fun part... it's a slow part as well. Almost always, you realise, like a year later, that they were right.

Thom: "That's interesting...

Jonny: "That's the most annoying point, is when you're so sure...and the most annoying is when stick to your guns, and then two years later you find out. And then every time you hear it you "oh man...."

Jim: "What song is on a Radiohead record today that you now look back on and say "what were we thinking"?

Jonny: "No, not on an album.

Thom: "No, not on an album 'cause by then it's gone through so many filters that we've usually got like the big fluff out.

Jonny: "There's a few maybe that were like, a little long, or could have done better, but, they've all been worth releasing.

Thom: "A couple of the old songs...

Greg: "You're saying a couple of the b sides floating around aren't up to snuff....

Jonny: "Nah, some of the B sides are good...

Jim: "More like stuff that they worked on for six or nine months or more and ...why did we waste all that time?

Thom: "That's in our cupboard and you ain't hearing it.

Jim: "All right! Well that's fair... Well there's one song out there that you guys are playing live now that i think has been around for years and years, right?

Thom: "Mhmm

Jim: "Never quite got on a record, and people are wondering when it's gonna be out there, I'm losing the title now, but

Jonny: "Nude

Jim: "Is it getting anywhere? You think it's getting to the point where it's gonna make the cut for this next record?

Thom: "I think it's got there, isn't it?

Jonny: "Yah.

Thom: " I mean, we'll probably end up arguing about the little tiny nooks and crannies of it in the end, but um, basically, yeah. We have that. It's in the bag.

Greg: "Oh! Look at this, so we're making progress! We got songs ready..

Greg: "I wanted to get back to one other thing. I know you guys have gotta go, but, we really appreciate the time. We're here with Thom and Jonny from Radiohead, and it's been a real pleasure.

Thom: "I thought we were just getting warmed up!

Jim: "You want to play on the Steinway? It's all yours. That'd be cool...

Greg: "I think there's a guitar around here somewhere...

Thom: "Jonny knows how to play piano, actually...

Jonny: "I should have brought a banjo.

Thom: "You should of brought your banjo, yeah, that's right....

Greg: "One thing I did want to talk about a little bit, when Kid A came out, and I still contend this, that it's the most avant record ever to go number one on billboard charts, Nobody's ever made a more daring record that ended up debuting at number one,

Jim: "Our associate producer Jim Saldona has a KIDA license plate...

Greg: "To my mind it was a landmark moment for the Internet. Maybe, obviously no one really knew it at the time, but the fact that the record was out there, and the people had a chance to listen to it for months before it came out, I think actually created an environment and a culture where that record could sell as many copies as it did in its first week. Because the radio sure as hell wasn't playing it. Nobody was being exposed to that record. At the time it must have been kind of... what I want to ask you guys is, was it really kind of nerve wracking to realise this thing that you had kind of sweated blood over was out there floating around on the internet and people were listening to it, months before it was actually coming out in its supposedly finished form.

Jonny: "Did that happen with that album?

Thom: "Yeah...

Jim: "Did that bother you at all at that time? And how do you look back on that period, cause that's what I think everybody was trying to assess : what the internet was going to mean, and how musicians were going to even make a living, with this music, this suddenly free file sharing floating around on there, did you sense that at the time?

Thom: "I know that, I know while we were doing Kid A , we were sort of doing kind of a lot of things on the, on our website, nd stuff. And every now and again we'd go and check what the traffic level was on the website, and there was one point where we were getting a million hits, a month, every month, we'd put links to other sites and stuff, and they'd call us back saying "We've just had an increase of, you know, 50,000 hits..." and all this sort of stuff and it was like... What is going on? That was, i mean, if you're talking about the internet. I mean, the file sharing things' like, Oh, whatever, It's just sort of endless debate that goes around and around, I mean I associate that period with , with just being exceptionally proud that we'd just let off this little stink bomb that was actually having some sort of effect, you know? I remember sitting in, um, central park, with this guy David Fricke from Rolling Stone, and it would just, I think it happened the day before, and we were just sitting there going "Pff" "I mean, how on earth, I mean there must have been some sort of clerical error!" No.

Jonny: "But I say, it was a quiet week on the charts.

Thom: "It was...that's what everybody said.

Jim: "No, but the influence of that album is amazing, Jason, our producer, has this KID A license plate, we're coming back from a show one night, and it's it's you know, 1:30 in the morning and we're driving and there's nobody on the road or streets, and this cop car pulls up next to us, and he is giving us a nasty look: I mean, Chicago cop, big, you know, big, scary-looking, and we were like: Oh shit man, we are so busted. And he goes, roll down the window...

Thom: "Busted for what? What had you done?

Jim: "Nothing...well, I don't know!

Thom: "What did you have in the trunk?

Jim: "It was like 1:30 in the morning. We felt like we had been at a rock show. The cop goes, "Roll down the window"... It just looked suspicious. The cop goes, "kid a , alright!!" When you're hitting chicago cops, Thom, with music that weird, you know you're doing something right!

Thom: "Hmm... You should have been at Bonnaroo, Bonnaroo last night man!

Jim: "He was probably there! Body surfing!

Thom: "Wasted in the field somewhere!

Greg: "Yah.

Jim: "Now we do this thing, and it's only with people we really like,

Jonny: "It doesn't involve nudity, does it?

Jim: "No no....

Thom: "It does, that's why the panels are up in the back!

Jim: "Where we do a desert island juke box selection where we either of us pick a song that uh, at this particular moment we couldn't live without. Obviously we're gonna drop a lot of your music in here. But what would you guys like to hear? and why? You have to play rock critic for a minute...

Thom: "Um... Scott Walker.

Jim: "Aw, the new one or, classic?

Thom: "No, um, Three and Four at the moment.

Jim: "Mhm?

Thom: "Mhm, if I'm uh, feeling a bit lost, put Scott's voice in me head,

Jim: "See, Americans, Thom, are completely still to this day, haven't caught on with Scott Walker, even beyond......why Scott Walker?

Thom: "But anybody who's into Radiohead , well, I'm sorry, part of the equation is Scott Walker. It's just part of where we come from, isn't it?

Jim: "So far ahead of his time, in so many ways, you know? Soul. Psychedelia. Pop.

Thom: "The orchestration, actually, at the moment, is just driving me crazy. The fact that they used to do some of these recordings , you know, where he'd sing it live with the orchestra , and you can hear everything coming down the vocal mic, you know? And, um, and when you put that in your headphones it's just absolutely extraordinary sound

Jim: "How 'bout a particular track from 3 or 4?

Thom: "Uh...The Old Man's Back in Town...The old man's back again.

(Scott walker - the old man's back again)

Jim: "What about you, Jonny?

Jonny: "Um. This afternoon I was listening to my favourite Sonic Youth album, Goo! So... Kool Thing, or something...would be very...it'd be great!

Jim: "That is a , that is a great song...

Jonny: "Yeah! it's amazing...

Jim: "Have you heard the new Sonic Youth album? (Rather Ripped)

Jonny: "No, I haven't... What 's it like?

Jim: "We were fighting about it last week. I kept saying it's not beginning to end good like Goo was, I actually said that.

Greg: "A short song oriented kind of record. You know, kind of very concise tracks, which is kind of a cool place for them to be. But, Goo came out at an exciting time, because Sonic Youth, suddenly they were this underground band with their video on MTV

Thom: "Geffen, yah. That whole Geffen thing.

Jim: "Was that one of the things that inspired you, guitar-wise?

Jonny: "Um, I think some of the music-wise. You kind of don't think of it as being guitars, it 's just a ....feeling it gives you.

(Excerpt of Sonic Youth - Kool Thing)

Jonny: "It was like a Christmas present from my brother, actually... when I was sixteen, or whenever it came out, I just thought it was amazing...

Jim: "Your brother...older brother?

Jonny: "Yah.

Jim: "Is he a musician? Uh.... he's a bass player, but yeah, no, very much, he is, yah. A great musician.

Thom: "(teasing) I'm gonna tell him!!

Jim: "That's right... I've heard of the guy, yeah...

Jonny: "This isn't going out, is it?? My only brother, in Radiohead, yeah.

Thom: "That one on your shoulder, there!

Greg: "He's usually the guy doing the interviews, isn't he? Today, you guys showed up.

Jim: "He's the chatty one....

Thom: "You wanted a brief one, didn't you say?

Jonny: "Kind of likes to change subjects like, three times, in a .... sentence. Which is great!

Thom: "Bring your library with you!

Jim: "Would he have played the grand piano and gotten nude behind the barricades?

Jonny: "Only the latter!

Jim: "Next time, Greg!

Jim: "Thank you, it's been a real pleasure, Thom Yorke and Jonny Greenwood of Radiohead!

Thom: "Is that it?

Jim: "Yah, unless you want to hang some more...

Thom: "Hang what?

Jonny: "Hang out is such a great phrase, we have nothing like it in England

Jim: "Nothing like it??

Jonny: "Such a great phrase, it implies you're doing something even though you're not doing anything.

Jim: "Not doing anything. Well you all have children now, so you will hear this phrase, well eventually you'll hear this phrase, I would imagine. Your daughter or son, in my case, my daughters my oldest daughter who's now 14. She says, you know, "I want to go out", I said, "What are you going to do?" --- "Oh, we're gonna hang out" And , that's her way of.. That is wide open. That gives her the licence to do just about anything... from jumping on back of a motorcycle, to um...

Jonny: "What does she do?

Jim: "So I'm just warning you, you may hear that phrase, and you've got to be very wary of it.

Thom: "Yeah. I'm already worried about that. We both have daughters now so we should be kind of worried.

Jonny: "She's only one, but already!

Jim: "Fathers need to protect their daughters from those boys out there.

Thom: "Yeah...

Jim: "You guys, if you want to play anything...

Greg: "We'd be honoured! That would be unbelievable

(silence)

Jonny: "You could do your thing on the piano there...

Thom: "Why me?? You've got stuff.

Jonny: "No instruments mate, sorry.

Thom: "There's a piano over there.

Greg: "Yah, right here. It is allegedly the best piano in Chicago.

Jonny: "What are you going to do?

Thom: "What? Dunno...

Jonny: "Do Videotape, or do something off the Eraser?

Thom: "I couldn't do the Eraser thing, I could do Videotape, would that work?

Jonny: "Yeah.

Thom: "If I do something, then you have to do something. Even if it's just instrumental! Your "climbing cycle"?

Jonny: "No I'm not playing that!

Thom: "Yeah you are!

Jonny: "No! No. I'll play it, and then you can cut it up and do something with it. I'm not performing it, it's too scary.

Thom: "Yeah you are!

Jonny: "I'll play something with you. But not...

(Chicken calls)

Jonny: "Yeah, i am a chicken. I keep chickens, I am a chicken.

Jim: "Do you really??

Jonny: "Yea!

Jim: "Do you have a farm?

Jonny: "No, I've just got twelve, thirteen chickens.

Jim: "Really? And you don't live in the city with thirteen chickens...

Jonny: "I'm a...mile outside the city.

Jim: "Well, that's close enough... How do your neighbours feel about the chickens?

Jonny: "They're learning to live with them.

Greg: "Oh my god.

Jonny: "They eat the eggs. So, they got to put up with their singing.

Jim: "So you make friends, by fresh eggs!\

Jonny: "Yeah. We've got three cockerels, and they, they're green.

Greg: "How many eggs a month can you get out of thirteen chickens?

Jonny: "Let's see, usually about four a day.

Greg: "Four a day? Each?

Jim: "They lay four eggs a day??

Jonny: "Some lay every day. Or 300 a year, the hybrids.

(Fading out chatter, Jonny is playing part of the piano piece)

Thom: "(encouraging) What's wrong with this?

Jonny: "It needs some singing, and some structure,

Thom: "No!

Greg: You're nervous?

Thom: "I'll play one and then ....

Jonny: "I'll be in a cab.

(silence)

Thom: "So which one am I gonna do, Jonjon?

Jonny: "None Of This!

Thom: "Yeah?

Jonny: "Yeah!

Thom: "Complete with air conditioning! I'm going to pull what Madonna had done!

Thom: "Headphones?

Jim: "Yah you can grab those.

Thom: "Juicy lucy...

(I want none of this)

[recording ends]