you're connected to the all songs considered plus one podcast I'm Bob boin and on this Edition a conversation with Johnny Greenwood the man of many textures as guitarist Electronics manipulator and AR Ranger with the band radio head the group's on tour playing a wide swath of songs from the remarkably varied career including the new record a moon-shaped pool Johnny Greenwood was at WBEZ in Chicago the new record's their ninth studio record it's more strange based and maybe more subtle than anything this band's done before I was curious how radio had approached their records do they just go into a studio and play or do they sit down and talk about the sound they want to create so we start the conversation that way we tend to approach every new record with the new technique or a new style of recording if we can manage it um and that was true this time as well so what would the conversation be like how would you describe because that's hard to do in words so I guess it feels like like every record we make we finish and have a collective thought that we didn't quite mean to do it like that and the next one will be different and then we'll get it right it's kind of like rewriting the same letter and getting each draft slightly wrong so it's a good motivational force or a terribly depressing kind of negative way to look depends how you look at it but um yeah it keeps us going so yeah that's how we approach this one uh if I can get more literal cuz I I like doing that which is trying to figure out like are you do you sit in a room with instruments and talk about sounds that you want to make do you do you talk about attitudes or uh approaches or uh just kind of really do get yeah um what we did is well it's kind of instructive that on the last record we ditched instruments this is for um king of blooms yes and we wrote Our Own software and we use computers in that way and but so for this record was a sort of reaction to that we went to the Other Extreme and we started using Magnetic Tape again and setting ourselves limits and and worked within you know the eight tracks or 16 tracks we were allowed to use for each song so it was far more restrictive than last time and we found that quite a creative creative way to work I think restrictions are for artists are is the most amazing way to get something to happen that you wouldn't have expected yeah exactly and you when you don't have an undo button on a recording machine then it adds this quite creative tension to what you're doing because you play a version of a guitar part and you think you can do it better so you try and do it again and if it is if it's no better then you've lost the old one you kind of you can't go back one step so there's that kind of quite fun pressure to the recording now you know whereas traditionally you use Pro Tools and there's layers and layers of things that 2:59259you can go back to and revise and mend I love that we're living in an age where you could say traditionally we use Pro 3:0737Tools I know you see um and and and so this this time we're trying to do something but then at the same time we 3:15315were conscious to make sure that we still used computers and laptop slots and not just 3:22322make it a big retro experience and not just make it you know with instruments that were also around in the 1960s the idea was to have computers and laptops 3:30330but to be all ending things on on tape when we can I think what I'd like to do 3:37337is um is play a song uh maybe I'll just start with the first one and maybe you can tell me how it came together and 3:45345actually I was wondering because so many people think of you more as a guitarist but uh where 3:52352are you in the song I mean obviously you're an orchestrator and play many many instruments but if I play the opening cut but let me do that and I'll 4:004 minutesbring it under you and if you don't mind just talk a little about how the song came together and what your part might 4:0747have been so here we go can you describe where some of those sounds are coming to that it almost sounds like a bow on a 4:16416cello or something or right I mean that's this song was one of the rare 4:24424chances of getting our hands on a unfinished song so we can put strings on right at the beginning usually strings 4:31431are a afterthought and they're sort of you know decoration on the end of a song and I've been staying for years wouldn't 4:38438it be great to just start with strings and so this song was just Tom singing in a drum machine and nothing else and then 4:47447I wrote strings to that so yeah you're hearing you know an orchestra play there there strumming their violins with 4:55455guitar plums that's the sound of the Rhythm and and yeah and it's just it's all strings and who are these people 5:0252that are doing this it's an orchestra called the lco London contemporary Orchestra who are kind of young and and eager Orchestra I've I'm working with a 5:11511lot in London at the moment right they do lots of new works new people's works and try to present classical music that's not more traditional but more 5:19519contemporary is that the simple way to put it exactly yeah they tend to play like both extremes it's B either living composers or very early Baro things 5:29529which it's kind of a nice healthy um you know to to miss out all the music in between feels like quite a nice modern thing to do let's just hear a little bit 5:37537more of this talk now when you presented the string parts to this group did they hear Tom and drum machine and all that 5:44544stuff and played to it or did they how did that work they did yeah they were playing to that and and conductor was just following it and leading them 5:52552through it but um you know string days are just the most exciting days to record kind I live for them it's amazing 6:006 minutesthe whole the excitement in the morning when you're just putting music out on on these empty stands and you know that an orchestra are coming later that day and you'll only have them for 4 hours and 6:0868you've got to make the most of it and it's it's really it's just the most exciting thing and then to sit in a room and hid and play yeah is is really like 6:16616nothing else are you one of those people that can hear music in your head can you write a part out and just know what it's 6:24624going to sound like yeah I can I'm not very good at hearing like chords and harmonies but yeah meel Melodies are I can usually 6:33633kind of notate or hear or whatever uhhuh but it still sounds pretty damn exciting when how many string players are are 6:40640playing these uh these strings with uh guitar picks this actually a little this only 13 players but um but still it's 6:48648it's yeah it's crazy what they can do with their instruments and how they've you know dedicated their lives to learning how to play them I'm still you know every time I see someone in their 6:5765720s carrying a cello case or a violing case I just I'm always a bit in awe I think they look you know very cool 7:0474compared to you know lad edits like me carrying guitars like that's you know I kind of I know who I admire more really 7:12712when you were uh when you were little uh you played violin did yeah Viola really yeah I was in like Viola orchestras when 7:20720I was um uh you know when I was a teenager and recorder groups as well I was a very nerdy um kind of musical kid 7:29729did did you like it or wish to abandon it I mean obviously it's not for when I say Johnny Greenwood to post anyone they 7:36736won't say oh yeah that great viist so right so my it's my manager laughing in 7:44744the background which is really encouraging he pointing and laughing makes it even worse um yeah you know I mean I I I'm blushing now as you can 7:53753probably tell because I I know I should be ashamed I know I should have been you could have been a contender 8:008 minutesyeah it's exactly you know instead of stealing cars and having a good time when I was a teenager I was literally playing recorders the little wooden recorders 8:0989like uh like sure awesome like to the age of 18 like seriously and with with no shame were you doing music of the 8:16816Renaissance or what were you what were you up to yeah yeah this is I mean it could have gone a different way again it 8:24824could you see it's true well I well then was it the drugs just kidding 8:31831oh and a terrible confession I know I should be I wish I had a drug habit something more but you know but no instead I've you know yeah but there is 8:40840a there are bits of recorder playing on some radi head records to if you listen closely to the choruses in the bz there's recorders there in the beginning 8:47847of one of the songs on the new record there's some recorder so you know it's it's getting its way into rhead records slowly the future the next radio head 8:56856record is going to be you and a and Tom and a recorder this just in so I I think of when I think of the 9:0595recorder uh and I think of you and the the amount of texture that you often put in and into the music that you play 9:14914they're really polar opposite I mean I guess I'm wondering how you made the leap or or or were you attracted to different more 9:23923dense more intense sounds I think we think of ourselves as being arrangers of these songs and you know Tom will write 9:32932a song or you know or half a song We'll develop it and then the big pressure is 9:39939how do you put this song across and not ruin it how do you arrange it right you know there's no individual interest in what we play 9:48948or what instruments we play on the record it's it's about it's like it's all about servicing the song It's a bit like you know in The Buddy Holly Story 9:56956in the film they have the scene when they go into the studio and the producer says right well I do the arranging and and I and I'm going to tell you what to 10:03103play and we're we're a bit like him we're a bit like that guy and that it's it's not really about right can I do my guitar part now it's more what will 10:121012serve this song best how do we not you know mess up this really good song because the part of the problem is Tom will sit at the piano and play a song 10:191019like Pyramid Song or whatever and and we're going to record it so how do we not make it you know worse how do you make it better than him just playing it 10:271027by himself which is already usually quite great so yeah we're kind of we're Rangers ready let me play a bit of uh 10:351035how about I'll just next cut Day Dreaming which is starts very keyboard based well sort of 10:451045right that's all magnetic tape and laptops and and it's Magnetic Tape being sort of 10:531053like touching the the uh metal reel and slowing it down or speeding it up yeah that's right and digital sounds going to 11:01111 secondit so again it's a bit like the the orchestra was talking about in London in that it's it's like we're trying to use 11:08118very old and very new technology together and just cut out the middleman and not use anything you know in 11:171117between you know good old technology like a piano and and then all the digital stuff on 11:241124top I've been making electronic music since the late '70s and one of my favorite things is and you do this this is why I'm attracted to what you do is 11:321132the is the the mix of uh organic and electronic and that happens so much in your music 11:401140and they complement each other in the way music and pictures complement one another you know there's there's 11:481148something so powerful about those two elements together thank you Bob do you 11:571157uh what I can't talk I love this 12:07127song he's singing so beautifully at the moment isn't he voice is amazing are you all in the room when this is happening 12:131213does he do this when he's finally gotten rid of you all and he's alone how does how does that how do you perform with 12:211221one another when it comes to Studio work well this song is a strange example because we did the backing track 12:291229and Tom came in and sang on it sort of we kind of couldn't find a way in and so we did a version I me my memory we kind of did it 12:381238without him or the Bare Bones of it without him what what did you have to work with that you were when you say you did the backing track was there just the 12:451245those tapes and stuff and Tom then played on top of it no he just came and sang I mean he wrote the song but I ended up playing the piano part and just 12:531253you're playing the piano I see yeah and we presented him with this um backing track to sing to and I think that was kind of a nice change for him he's so used to having to you know start things 13:01131 secondoff uhhuh some it's nice because you you it's it's like it's a good example of you hear something slightly out of time 13:08138and if you try and go and correct it on the tape you might not do it as well again and it's yeah it's kind of reminding me of that whole process 13:161316funny is there a song um that I can pick here that uh illustrates yet another example of the 13:251325way you work I mean there's glass eyes which is all which is just strings and Tom what uh I want to get Kiki what what 13:331333computer programmer are you using to make this sound that's a piano and it's processed 13:401340with it with um some software I wrote using Max MSP it's like a kind of basic 13:471347programming language for music for sound and I guess to explain to somebody who has no idea what any of that means it's 13:541354kind of like having a bunch of Legos on the floor and uh you you can connect them together to make something right yeah so instead of taking someone else's 14:03143idea of what you know echo or Reverb should sound like you get to build one from the from the ground up it's a it's a nice nice to be in control of that 14:121412stuff and do many accidents happen when you do that that you come up with ideas that you never would have thought of or 14:201420are you very are you one of those people you're just after a goal and you set out to achieve it and you achieve it uh 14:291429yeah I mean there there's you know happy accidents but there's also I'm suddenly remembering also there's lots of occasions when it just it breaks and the 14:371437whole band are waiting for it to work again it's a bit like having an old car and it just keeps breaking down every few hundred miles and you need to lift 14:441444the Bonnet and so it's it's either endearing or really frustrating depending on how you look at it going play a little bit bit of this in the 14:521452clear for folks this is glass eyes you have a way of making um these these musical spaces that feel like wonderful 15:01151 secondrooms I want to live in there's uh people use uh Reverb and Echo and all that stuff and just 15:08158sometimes it almost gets to be to the point of being annoying as opposed to 15:151515welcoming yes I know what you mean yeah it's it's dangerous thing to rely on but then if it's making making it you know 15:221522the music sounds beautiful then it can be can be a creative tool really mhm I remember seeing you uh it's actually almost about 8 years to the day because 15:311531I remember this because uh Barack Obama had uh had accepted his nomination for the parties uh for for president uh on 15:391539that night it was a you historic night in America but you were playing and I was out there for a concert you were doing in Santa Barbara California this 15:481548gorgeous gorgeous outdoor space and uh after the show I was wandering around just alone actually Tom was going to come we were going to meet cuz we hadn't 15:561556met but talked before and there was a family hanging out and I was kind of missing my son and I walked over to this family and started talking to him and it 16:02162turns out that the guy the father there was the creator inventor uh of the um 16:101610line six uh box and for those who don't know if you ever go see a Band in concert it's a green uh metallic box 16:191619with a number of dials on it uh that people use for delay and looping and all that sorts of stuff and it it's become Ubi ubiquitous and everywhere uh and he 16:291629said I know he's using my stuff Johnny uh but he's doing stuff with it that I never ever imagine that anybody ever 16:381638could do you dig deep into these guitar effects boxes and try to make them your own I try and remember that lots of 16:461646these very basic things supposedly basic things are quite overlooked it's funny it's like the idea of a delay is such a 16:541654powerful thing such a you can do so many creative things with just that one one idea that it it can be very distracting 17:02172to suddenly collect other effects and pedals and you just again it's kind of back to limitations it's good to to stay limited and and you end up doing far 17:101710more creative things I think when you force yourself to be to be quite limited so yeah dig deep yeah I hope so I mean 17:171717I'm still finding new ways to use those kind of pedals you know I've actually only got one delay pedal and that's all I use and you hear that guitar players 17:261726that's all you need I mean they they are all the same between you and all guitars R are the same frankly 17:331733yeah I know it's sa just to say it but um yeah I'm I'm kind of more interested in getting a recorder now now I'm talking about 17:401740it process it yeah right which makes me think of what has happened in your um 17:471747Evolution as a guitar player I mean I can put on probably at random uh five or six of these songs and and ask somebody 17:571757hey point out the guitar guitar here and maybe there's not not even one but they certainly be hard pressed even if there were a guitar there well that's that's 18:05185success isn't it really good then I think that's that makes me happy because I'm thinking that it's yeah it's funny 18:141814we talk about um I can remember being a kid and all the records I loved I used to love them because of the songs and I 18:211821never noticed the bands and was never interested and when we first were first when our first record came out and people would ask what guitar players are 18:291829like I would just have to say the name of the band because I wouldn't know I had to keep remembering yeah John mcge played in magazine okay I've got to 18:371837remember that name so you I can talk about and just because it was it was having written a song that amazed me rather than what the guitar players were 18:441844playing like or the thing you know fact that this song had come from nowhere and then someone had sat and written it that's that was the the mind-blowing 18:511851thing for me so it's sort of in in a way uh it's all an orchestra to you in some ways where the person personality is the 18:591859is the result like I mean you don't know the players in an orchestra nobody's going to name almost anyone right yeah yeah right I think it's it's nice to 19:07197think slightly anonymously like that you said at the beginning that you sort of set out to do one thing and it winds up to be another could you put your finger 19:161916on what you think that you tried for that you didn't get and what you did get and can you put those in words at all I mean there's a few specific things but 19:251925overall it's kind of a miracle this is going to sound very conceited but it's it's a surprise to me how well so many 19:321932of the songs came out actually um and the one or two frustrations I have there nothing compared to the like eight or 19:401940nine you know like key things I'm just amazed that we got good recordings of we really very lucky and and and happy to 19:491949have this as a record if you think of uh the amount of time that you let's see this what to maybe 60 70 minute record 19:571957do you have any clue how many hours you spent whittling down I mean we I'm going to look across at my manag to see if 20:04204he's going to nod when I say this but we we did good 80% of the record in about two weeks wow we basically went to a studio and again because we had the 20:132013limitations and we couldn't you know we couldn't spend days on a lot of I'm just going to sound like an old fogy to say this but a lot of a lot of 20:212021bands it seems to me we'll go to a studio for a day and then the their producer will edit and mix for the for the rest of the week and kind of construct a song and it feels like we prefer it to being the other way around and you should just be playing and getting it right and you know you end up with stranger things I think but then you know the next record we'll be really frustrated with that and and we hopefully change direction and and think of you know and you know it's the process saying yeah it's not quite right let's let's let's go in this direction instead so your heavy metal I'm getting into trying to get into heavy metal at the moment cuz I'm feeling like I missed out and I keep asking people to recommend I saw deep purple a couple of weeks ago in Italy and it was great um and it's all new music to me and I don't know any of that stuff and I'm just um it was really was really interesting it kind of this sort of hard rock with a real of swaggy drummer this amazing drummer in um absolutely called in Pierce is fantastic all they're missing really is oh sorry no carry on no teach to me because I I really it's it's a new world to me I keep in fact recommend some good I mean I know Le Zeppelin and everything but what happened afterwards is there nothing do you know I mean swans is a good example of someone who is deeply textured and and uh and Boris is another those are two Avenues Boris the Japanese yeah yeah yeah Tom's obsessed with them he keeps playing me that stuff that's interesting yeah loudest music on on it's it's bone rattling music I mean it's yeah it's quite insane so so the next record is going to be a metal record with recorder is I understand it then right Fant got our answer thank you I knew this interview was worth doing that's brilliant okay yeah we'll do that okay sweet thanks that'll be the headline thank you so much nice to talk to you yeah good to talk to you too thanks for taking time cheers cheers bye