Radiohead — Rockin'on, August 1994
[Page 116]

Interviewer: You seem to be deliberately trying to do something new. It also feels as though you are trying to move toward something more progressive.

Thom: I think we're finally at the stage where we're beginning to understand the direction we should be going in. That's why recording is taking so long. It's a constant process of discovery. For example, there are things that I used to love that I can't really love in the same way anymore. You know, when something becomes cheapened by people jumping on the bandwagon, by people tearing it apart, or whatever.

Interviewer: So do you agree with the idea that vulnerability is essential to a pop star?

Thom: I think there has to be some kind of reciprocal relationship. It's ridiculous to expect a pop star to be a suffering artist. But music ultimately takes those things and expands them into something much more painful.
Before we started, everything seemed very normal and balanced. But then you get things like Ziggy Stardust and The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust, acid house, and so on. The problem is that you can't simply explode. You have to maintain some kind of stability. If you destroy that stability, everything suddenly falls apart.

Interviewer: I'd like to change the direction of the questions slightly. You have been talking about the pressure placed on you as a performer...

Thom: I don't actually intend to flatter the audience. The people who come to see us aren't some kind of completely passive audience. I don't want to stand there staring at them and tell them how wonderful they are. I don't think that's what we're about.
We've reached a point where we finally understand where we're going. So, with the recording, we're trying to move forward rather than deliberately repeating what we've already done.

Interviewer: There are songs of yours that are now being used in advertisements.

Thom: Yes. There's one of the Velvet Underground songs being used in a tyre advertisement. The advertisement itself is very well made, actually. But it's strange, because that song is about Islam. It's an extremely grotesque song, and now it's being used in a tyre commercial.
I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. There are times when you simply have to accept that something you've created has taken on a life of its own. But I don't want to deliberately make music for an audience. We're not some kind of enormous, self-important pop-star institution. I don't think we're that far gone.

[Page 117]

Interviewer: You seem to be much more comfortable now. You look as though you're enjoying yourself.

Thom: Yeah. That's probably because the shows have been going so well. All three of them were really successful. But the funny thing is that pop music has gradually become entertainment. The rhythm and structure have increasingly been separated from what they originally meant. Pop music has become nothing more than recreation.

Interviewer: Do you think that is something you simply have to accept as a pop star, or do you think it should be rejected?

Thom: I think it has to be rejected. You can't just accept it. Look at The Smiths, for example. Their approach was completely different from bands like the Smashing Pumpkins. As a band, everyone contributes equally to the recording, so it takes a long time, but I think it's worth doing that.

Interviewer: You've spoken before about the fear of going on stage.

Thom: Yeah. I had a really bad experience with that. I was extremely ill and nervous. Every night, whenever I went on stage, I was expected to be some kind of artist and to make a particular face and perform in a particular way. It became horrible. I was in a terrible state. My body hurt, I was exhausted, and everything seemed to hurt. I've never experienced anything like it before.

Interviewer: And yet you seem much more relaxed now.

Thom: Yes. I think part of it is that I've stopped worrying so much about what people expect from me.

Interviewer: When we met last time, you talked about the way the British press treats bands. Has that changed?

Thom: Not really. The British press still has a tendency to take things and turn them into something else. They'll take five people who have known each other for years, put them together as a band, and then try to tear them apart. They turn everything into a story.

Interviewer: In Britain, bands often seem very conscious of class. Your own background is middle-class, isn't it?

Thom: Yes. We all went to the same public school. We were brought up in an environment where we were taught that if you weren't particularly good at something, you were going to be told off for it. It was very competitive.
I think that's one reason why people from our background can become so insecure. And yes, the fact that our parents were able to send us to public school is obviously part of our background. I was fortunate enough to be able to go to university as well. But that doesn't mean the music we make is automatically good or bad because of our class.

Interviewer: Do you think that sense of being an outsider, or a loser, is connected to your background?

Thom: Perhaps. But when I wrote “Creep,” there was a lot of humour in it. At least, there was for me. The important thing was understanding why I was angry. That's much more important than simply expressing the anger.

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Interviewer: A lot of your songs deal with alienation and negative feelings. Do you think that you need someone or something to direct your anger toward?

Thom: Why would you need a target for your anger in the first place? If you can understand the source of your own feelings, I think you can deal with almost any problem. You can think positively about the future. Before, I couldn't think that way at all. But I've experienced a lot of things over the last two years.

Interviewer: When you heard the new music by artists such as Beck, how did you feel about it?

Thom: I think it's important to understand how you yourself react to something. That's more important than the thing itself. The problem is that we've become containers for things that are given to us from outside. We can't necessarily take those things and share them with other people in a personal way. Our generation has lost the idea of sharing happiness or emotion. Everything has become something that is marketed.

Interviewer: Do you think that is also true in Japan?

Thom: Japan is probably similar. People are constantly being treated as consumers. They're given something and expected to accept it. That's why I don't understand why people get so angry about certain things. Why can't you simply reject something you don't like? You don't have to accept everything that's given to you.

Interviewer: You mentioned the fact that young people today seem to have more of a voice than previous generations.

Thom: Yes, perhaps they do. But at the same time, technology and urbanisation have created an enormous amount of isolation. People say that technology is destroying people's ability to communicate, and that we're losing hope for the future. But the future is actually right in front of us. It's just that we can't see it anymore.

Interviewer: Is that what the name Radiohead means to you?

Thom: In a way, yes. It's connected to that idea of being surrounded by information, television, radio, and all those things, while at the same time becoming increasingly isolated.
Everything is there, but you don't necessarily have any personal connection to it.

Interviewer: Do you think that people from the working class are able to express these things more directly?

Thom: I don't know. I understand why someone might want to identify an enemy in the upper classes, or why someone might want to express themselves through that kind of anger.
But it doesn't necessarily make you happier. That's the difficult thing for me. I wake up sometimes and think, “I don't want to do this anymore. I want to go home.” But that's not necessarily a political statement.

Interviewer: Could you write a song about that?

Thom: I don't know. It would be rather presumptuous for someone like me to talk about an entire generation. But I do think there are things happening around us that are worth writing about.

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Interviewer: Do you ever feel that the world around you is like a jungle with no development or hope?

Thom: I understand what you mean, but that's not quite how I see it. Even when people are surrounded by things that make them unhappy, there are still ways of responding to them.
The difficult thing is that everyone is expected to remain stable. You're expected to go to work, behave properly, buy things, consume things and carry on as though everything is normal. But emotionally, that's not necessarily what happens.

Interviewer: So would you say that the themes you're talking about might appear in your songs?

Thom: Maybe. But I don't want to write songs simply because I think I ought to represent a particular generation. If I write something, it has to come from something personal.

Interviewer: You have talked about the difference between artists who turn their anger outward and those who turn it inward.

Thom: Yes. That's an important distinction. Some people look for an enemy because it's easier to understand your anger if you can give it a target.
But I think it's much more interesting to understand what you're actually feeling.

Interviewer: What about people like Beck, who use humour and irony?

Thom: I like Beck's humour. But when someone takes something that is actually serious and turns it into a joke, I sometimes wonder what they're really saying.
When I wrote “Creep,” there was humour in it too. People sometimes forget that.

Interviewer: Do you think “Creep” has become something different from what it originally was?

Thom: Definitely. When I wrote it, I wasn't thinking, “This is going to become a huge hit.” There was a lot of insecurity and humour in it. But once the audience starts singing it back to you, it becomes something else.
There's a strange moment when you're standing on stage and everyone is singing the song together. You realise that something you wrote privately has become something shared by thousands of people.

Interviewer: Does that make you uncomfortable?

Thom: Sometimes. But I think that's also the point of music. You make something yourself, and then somebody else takes it and gives it another meaning. You can't control that. Orange pull-quote printed in the article “What is important is not simply expressing anger, but understanding what it is that you're angry about.” Another pull-quote “It is important to understand how you yourself react to something.” And the concluding pull-quote “The important thing is to put the guitar in your hands and write the song yourself.”